15 replies to this topic

[telcosplicer]

Theres a road widening project going to start this summer in our system. I got a few peds that i have to move cuz there where the new side walk is going to be. Cant really dig up the cable and move them back and dont really want to cut the cable and put splices in them. So i was thinking about changing out the peds for hand holes and putting the cable in a splice case. Any recomendation on a case i was looking at the armadillos, ive never used them before tho, any other options out there?

[olo131]

I hate hand holes they try to do that crap for us in the CATV world and it always causes trouble in the end!! Not sure how it will work for the Bell side of things.....

Let us know how it turns out!!

[tip&ring]

Theres a road widening project going to start this summer in our system. I got a few peds that i have to move cuz there where the new side walk is going to be. Cant really dig up the cable and move them back and dont really want to cut the cable and put splices in them. So i was thinking about changing out the peds for hand holes and putting the cable in a splice case. Any recomendation on a case i was looking at the armadillos, ive never used them before tho, any other options out there?

Difficult , at least for me , to get 3M 2-type series telco cases (waffel cases) outside of the phone company here so I use alot of PLP Armadillo cases for my customers. Actually almost exclulsively now as I can get them overnight from a couple of suppliers local here. The Performance Line Products (PLP) cases are quite a bit more $$$ than the 3M but they are a good case and after built are easy to get into. You will have to get a end plate cutter, blade kit, and carry case, if you don't have these, which comes in a kit (PLP #8000452). Also get a couple or so cans of "C" cement (PLP # 80802377) and some extra Lock-Tape or "DR" tape (PLP #80806592). You will have to provide your own drill motor. The dircections that come in the kit are pretty explanatory and after you get a couple or three under your belt they will get much easier and faster. Drilling the end plated and preppiing them with the "C" cement and "DR" tape takes a bit of time compaired to some other cases but it is easy. Make sure to set your hand hole boxes deep enough to clear the diameter of the case by at least 4 or 5 inches if you can. If you order the splice case kits they come with 2 piece end plates and the shell. If you are only are going to have single cable in and single cable out the 2 piece end plates will be fine. If you have straps (stubs) in a splice and the cables are small enough a 2 piece should be fine. If the cables are larger, like 900X 24 ga. and up, you may want to order the 3 piece end plates that only come seperately. You will have to get the air valves seperate if your going to flash the cases. PLP has them but I can't find the part #. Flash cases to 6 to 8 PSI. Re-enterable is not to be used in possible water contditions like in a manholes. Re-enterable is O.K. for direct bury only regardless of what the client says or wants. Warranty thing. Anyhow thats all I can think of for now.

Edited by tip&ring, 23 March 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[nutsleft]

How big a cable are you talking? I really would shy away from the handhole hole, unless it is a small count and gauge. It will be a headache in the future if you put in a splice case. The best solution I can offer is to section through the peds. Know you don't want to, but if you consider future work it will be easier.

Best solution: cut in a like section, and bring the tails up into two peds. Easy to access count, or to put in new cable.
Second solution: cut in a loop and pour and bury the two splices. You can access the count and new cable, but you do have two buried splices. If done correctly, you should have no issues with the buried splices.
Third solution: Put on case and set hand hole around it. Work on your belly to access count, jack up sidewalk to add new cable, and fight like hell(on your belly) to get case realigned after nocking it loose while working on or adding new cable.

Hope that helps

[Wood Pecker]

Damn that is some damn good advice fellas!
Nutsleft havent seen you in a while.
Good to see ya! Good topic as well Tip &ring wrote a manule

[Dave72]

I was gonna comment on T&R's comment about not using PLP cases under water..
But, I was waiting to see if anyone else posted.

We have I bet a few thousand, prolly 1/2 are under water. Maybe 10% are under air pressure.
Very seldom to get a leak.. I think we've had 3 or 4 that dribbled in a little (slow leaks).. and I think most of them were thought to leak because someone stepped on it and radically altered the case/cable angles. Even then, its possible there wasnt enough c-cement or the taping wasnt done right, or the bolts werent cranked down right etc..

Have no fear of putting a PLP case under the drink !

[telcosplicer]

right now i only have two peds to move, one with a 300pr in and out and a 200pr out, the other is a 100 pr in and out. the smallest hand hole i would use would be 24x36x36 but i would probably go bigger than that. Id rather replace the section of cable but i dont think they will go for that cuz of the cost of copper

[madd splicer]

I would stay away from the handholes for copper. I've installed them for copper before and wish I hadn't.

Nutsleft's second solution is probably the way I would go.

[lastcenturytel]

Handholes are ok if you have slack loops in them to pull the cable up and out to work on from a sitting position and if the counts are smaller(1" diameter or smaller). I agree with Nutsleft's second solution also. Splice in a a section with 2 buried splices(I like Xaga 1650's) and loop the new section through the relocated pedestal. Might seem a little odd I suppose with the 300 in and 200 out, but I would just loop a piece of 300 through and put a cable tag on in the ped indicating the dead count and footage to buried splice.

[CrackerJack_4268]

we PLP stainless cases and black jacks for copper and coyote and coyote runts for fiber and they work pretty damn good. i wouldn't use a blackjack on anything bigger and then 50pair also wouldn't use one if it was conductors over 22 gauge over if its armored cable
we used a black jack on a 6pair 19gauge goin to a TACAN (tactical air navigation system) for an emergency quick fix till we could get a little down time to properly fix it and about 3 days later it was letting some moisture in it. pretty much the same thing when we used it on a 12pair 24gauge armored

[tip&ring]

I was gonna comment on T&R's comment about not using PLP cases under water..
But, I was waiting to see if anyone else posted.

We have I bet a few thousand, prolly 1/2 are under water. Maybe 10% are under air pressure.
Very seldom to get a leak.. I think we've had 3 or 4 that dribbled in a little (slow leaks).. and I think most of them were thought to leak because someone stepped on it and radically altered the case/cable angles. Even then, its possible there wasnt enough c-cement or the taping wasnt done right, or the bolts werent cranked down right etc..

Have no fear of putting a PLP case under the drink !

PLP cases work extremely well under water such as in manholes. I'm just saying don't fill with re-enterable. Flash case at 6 to 8 PSI instead. Re-enterable ruins a otherwise perfectly good splice and is no guarantee the case is water tight. I've put in 100's myself and none have re-enterable in them. I've just flashed them with nitrogen or dry air and none have leaked over the 22 years I've been building them.

Edited by tip&ring, 27 March 2012 - 07:27 AM.

[Dave72]

My mistake T&R,, I thought you were recommending against them.
We use nitrogen bottles too (10psi). I was never too happy with trying to soap up the seam along a PLP though.. too many holes and cracks. We do have helium and an older detector for leak finding.. I was thinking of getting some newer /faster responding helium detectors so that we could use em for testing PLPs. A quick sweep along the edges of the PLP would be all ya need !

[tip&ring]

My mistake T&R,, I thought you were recommending against them.
We use nitrogen bottles too (10psi). I was never too happy with trying to soap up the seam along a PLP though.. too many holes and cracks. We do have helium and an older detector for leak finding.. I was thinking of getting some newer /faster responding helium detectors so that we could use em for testing PLPs. A quick sweep along the edges of the PLP would be all ya need !

No worries Dave72......
Still use PT Technologies pressure testing solution ( pre-mixed soap solution) to look for air bubbles. Use a hand held plastic spray bottle from Home Depot that can be adjusted to a stream instead of a spary. Seems to work well on the PLP's with all their nooks and crannys. Still have soap bucket and brush too but soap stream appears to works better on these cases. Not as many surface bubbles.
Also I leave "C" guage on splice case, after flashing it, as I'm cleaning up MH and check if the pressure drops any at all before I leave.

I do use 3M High Gel re-enterable encpasulant only for direct bury splices with the Tomas & Betts #TBT62 Kold-N-Klose kits, then wrap with their boot material and ty-wrap. Belden owns them now and their products are still available.

[Bell Fibre Tech]

Best by far in the business works very well in mh's if there built right lol I use them everyday for fibre.

I know alot of copper guys that love them over 3m but that been said alot of 3m enclosures are been replaced by PLP .

[Dave72]

Hi BFTech.
Our fots guys use Tyco/Raychem FOSC closures for the fots. We try to make splices happen in peds where we can, but alot are still in manholes. The fots system is sheath monitored via a Norscan system that checks for grounds/opens as well as moisture sensor tape in each splice. Bit of a pain to set up, but we can get on troubles typically way before they cause problems with the optics.

[Bell Fibre Tech]

Yes Dave your correct on that I used them for years working for Telus an good enclosure also if there built right .