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#1 JoeW

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Posted 22 March 2009 - 05:40 AM

Ok let me preface this discussion with I do not work for a telco I am a cable guy. We do phone service but only deal with twisted pair in the house. I got my hands on a sidekick the only problem is no one knows how to use it so I am taking it upon myself to find someone who does.

Will this tool help me on finding in house problems or is it mainly used out on the pole?

Any help with trying to use this tool would be great. Thanks in advance.

#2 Specials Tech

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 01:00 AM

Ok let me preface this discussion with I do not work for a telco I am a cable guy. We do phone service but only deal with twisted pair in the house. I got my hands on a sidekick the only problem is no one knows how to use it so I am taking it upon myself to find someone who does.

Will this tool help me on finding in house problems or is it mainly used out on the pole?

Any help with trying to use this tool would be great. Thanks in advance.

Hello Cable Guy. Kudos to you for finding new tools and being interested in how they work. Inside wire (IW), does not have a ground surrounding the prs, just a flexible jacket. Therefore the only thing the sidekick will be able to tell you is if the pr you are looking at has a short. You will be better off with a double ended cable tester that cabling techs use to verify their work. You can get a manual for the sidekick at the Tempo website. Hope this answers your question. Take care and be safe.

#3 linemandave

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 05:12 PM

Hey Joe!

The SideKick is a great tool. Unfortunately, not for your application. It's used for a lot of different things; testing for a good pair, stress, loads or distance. But it's not going to be of much help with interior residential stuff.

LD

#4 lastcenturytel

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:12 PM

Interesting responses.....the Sidekick is the ONLY meter I have ever used for troubleshooting IW. There isn't anything you cannot do on IW with a butt set, sidekick, tone sender and tone amplifier. Here's a link to the Tempo Sidekick 7B(T&N has a extra features but is same meter) page....they have the training manual link there, I believe it's in PDF form and can walk you throught everything you need to know Tempo Research Sidekick 7B Info

*edit*

IW not being shielded is of no consequence. IW still suffers the same trouble you would find in outside plant - opens, shorts, crosses, grounds, etc.. When testing iw inside the house, the proper way to get a ground is to stick your security hex(also called a booth wrench or SNI tool) into the round ground port on an electrical recepticle and attach your green ground lead to that. If you're outside or underneath the house, just stick a slotted screwdriver into the ground and attach your green ground lead to it(slotted because its the easiest to clean mud off of).

Edited by lastcenturytel, 25 March 2009 - 08:24 PM.


#5 lastcenturytel

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 08:19 PM

*edit*

somehow I double posted here.....

Edited by lastcenturytel, 26 March 2009 - 07:28 AM.


#6 Specials Tech

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 12:23 AM

Interesting responses.....the Sidekick is the ONLY meter I have ever used for trouble shooting IW. There isn't anything you cannot do on IW with a butt set, sidekick, tone sender and tone amplifier. Here's a link to the Tempo Sidekick 7B(T&N has a extra features but is same meter) page....they have the training manual link there, I believe it's in PDF form and can walk you throught everything you need to know Tempo Research Sidekick 7B Info

I agree that using the ground in an outlet is the best way to gain a ground reference in the house. I also agree that IW can suffer from any metallic issue regular outside plant can, and more due to it's lack of a shield. In my experience, I have not been able to tell with certainty if the IW had a fault other than a short using a Sidekick. It's the uncertainty part I don't like. So in my reply when I said shorts are the "only" thing a Sidekick can see, I meant see with certainty.

I work on special circuits and when they don't work it's usually costing a company time and money, and they want it fixed fast and forever, preferably the first time. Voice traffic on a POTS line uses 3Khz of bandwidth. An HDSL T1 needs around 162Khz. That high frequency added to the 135 volts it has on it can make minor faults a big deal. I better be right when I proclaim the IW is not the problem.

That was the main point I wanted to make, that in my opinion a Sidekick would not be a good tool for JoeW for this reason, and that there are actual IW testing tools out there. IW has made me look like a monkey several times, and I have come to the conclusion not to trust my sidekick on IW. (I do enough brainless things on my own, I don't need any extra help). Take care and be safe.

#7 JoeW

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 04:45 PM

What would you recommend for testing IW?

#8 Impala126

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Posted 26 March 2009 - 08:11 PM

What would you recommend for testing IW?



lastcenturytel is right on... The sidekick and a ts-100 is all I use on IW. Google harris ts-100. The ts-100 is a pour mans TDR it will tell ya dist to falt opn/sht. What do you know how to use the sidekick? I know the manual is writen in code most tech in my crew say. If ya call me Ill pm u my # and I can walk ya throught the sidekick.

#9 Davetherobot

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:45 AM

Yep, Lastcenturytel has it. It's an old post I know but I needed to put in my two bits. I have been working for AT&T for the last 14. Service tech, construction, hi caps/fiber and now MST. I have two sidekicks on my truck because if I only had one and it died I would be nearly dead in the water. If you need to trouble shoot inside twisted pair the sidekick is indispensable. I also provision and maintain hicap circuits, hdsl2&4. The T&N version is great for finding loads. I also have a sidekick plus, the digital version of the sidekick 7b. Probably 3 times as heavy, twice as big, built in TDR which is useful for finding location of faults and bridge tap. The thing I like about the 7b is its versatility, I can look at pairs two miles long or I can isolate trouble on 50' of IW. The analog needle can tell you a lot that a digital readout won't tell you. Original post was "how to use it"... Voltage- 48v,dial tone/disconnected line/dry loop. Half that voltage- off hook/short. On disconnected IW hold down each side (tip then ring)- if you are seeing voltage then its crossed with battery from somewhere else. Leakage- ohm meter, you should see infinity or you have a short(check the jacks for corrosion is a common cause), hold down each side to check for grounds then use "kick" switch to see how long each side is. You want them balanced. If the needle slowly creeps up while doing this its probably wet. Stress- gives you a general idea of the quality of the line 20 is great 30 is marginal, take off one lead 80 means you have a good ground. Stress can also be used for an alternate tone source. Stress readings will also be higher closer to the trouble. Always use the ground clip for more accurate readings. Wow, all that for two bits!



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